|  Author | Topic: SalineOS 2 Dev (Read 1,447 times) |
Richard
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|  | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #15 on Aug 21, 2012, 9:27am » | |
Quote:| When I install a different OS the first thing I do is copy a folder into my home that has my Xfce custom menus on it, add the menus to the panel, add a line to fstab for my data partition, reboot and I have my standard familiar desktop back with an option to run the firefox profile manager so I just create a new profile and point it at the same profile folder that all my OS's use including windows. I LOVE custom menus, I put them together 14 months ago and I've used them ever since, sorry about the shouting. |
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@ukbrian,
I'd like to know more. I guess my brain hasn't gotten around this yet.
I haven't found them all, or just haven't figured out where they reside.
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SalineOS-1.7, Xfce4.6.2, w/3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae;
SalineOS-2.0, Xfce4.8, w/3.2.0-4-686-pae
LinuxMint-14, Xfce4.10, w/3.5.0-17-generic |
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Anthony Nordquist
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #16 on Aug 21, 2012, 10:13am » | |
Quote:Ikey mention that packagekit or something doesn't do a DK?? or something after video drivers or the kernel change, I think he's prioritizing writing a new one for SolusOS 1.
Maybe that will run on SalineOS. |
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If needed, I will probably just write my own update script in bash with yad. Or, go back to the terminal based update, which though not the prettiest, was good and reliable.
Edit: Well as it turns out, for the time being at least I have reverted to a command line based solution for upgrades.
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beardedragon
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #17 on Aug 21, 2012, 10:42am » | |
Aug 21, 2012, 9:24am, Anthony Nordquist wrote:| There is no root password on the 2.0 dev builds, I have moved to sudo. Issue the command sudo -i to get root. |
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Mint has used "sudo" all a long. Following an example you can still reach root with "su" :
Code:bob@bob-s5710f ~ $ su
Password:
bob-s5710f bob # apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
bob-s5710f bob #
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Robert Collard, Madison, WI
HP s5710f, 2x AMD Athlon II 260@3.2Ghz 3GB RAM, 640GB HD
Debian 7.0 XFCE-4.10 3.2.0-4-amd64
If you are satisfied with the results, please Edit your first post and add [Solved] to the Subject line. |
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Anthony Nordquist
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #18 on Aug 21, 2012, 10:49am » | |
Aug 21, 2012, 10:42am, beardedragon wrote:
Aug 21, 2012, 9:24am, Anthony Nordquist wrote:| There is no root password on the 2.0 dev builds, I have moved to sudo. Issue the command sudo -i to get root. |
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Mint has used "sudo" all a long. Following an example you can still reach root with "su" :
Code:bob@bob-s5710f ~ $ su
Password:
bob-s5710f bob # apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
bob-s5710f bob #
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They must be diverting or replacing su with sudo -i or the like. Nifty, but will cause issue for people who manually want to set a root password. I don't think I will be doing anything like this, as sudo -i isn't too hard to get used to and I don't want to impede anyone who wants to setup a root user.
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beardedragon
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #19 on Aug 21, 2012, 10:54am » | |
Quote:| They must be diverting or replacing su with sudo -i or the like. Nifty, but will cause issue for people who manually want to set a root password. I don't think I will be doing anything like this, as sudo -i isn't too hard to get used to and I don't want to impede anyone who wants to setup a root user. |
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The installer requires a root as well as a user password, perhaps this is the way they get around it?
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Robert Collard, Madison, WI
HP s5710f, 2x AMD Athlon II 260@3.2Ghz 3GB RAM, 640GB HD
Debian 7.0 XFCE-4.10 3.2.0-4-amd64
If you are satisfied with the results, please Edit your first post and add [Solved] to the Subject line. |
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Anthony Nordquist
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #20 on Aug 21, 2012, 11:01am » | |
Aug 21, 2012, 10:54am, beardedragon wrote:
Quote:| They must be diverting or replacing su with sudo -i or the like. Nifty, but will cause issue for people who manually want to set a root password. I don't think I will be doing anything like this, as sudo -i isn't too hard to get used to and I don't want to impede anyone who wants to setup a root user. |
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The installer requires a root as well as a user password, perhaps this is the way they get around it? |
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Honestly for security reasons, you either want sudo or a root user and not both.
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ukbrian
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #21 on Aug 21, 2012, 4:43pm » | |
Quote:@Richard,
I'd like to know more. I guess my brain hasn't gotten around this yet.
I haven't found them all, or just haven't figured out where they reside. |
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I've made a video of my desktop http://lin.me.uk/vids/xfce-1.mp4
If you are interested in trying them out I will put them together for you.
If you give me the name of your user in /home and the menus you want complete with the apps you want in each menu I'll put a self contained folder together so you only have to copy a folder into your user folder and then add to panel and point at them.
If you want to put the menu into a data partition instead of your user folder which I recommend I'll need the path to it.
Just PM me the details my friend I'm only to pleased to help you.
![[image]](http://smile.lin.me.uk/hi-five-00.gif "[image]")
Quote:@Anthony.
Well as it turns out, for the time being at least I have reverted to a command line based solution for upgrades. |
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If I find the post he made it might have been on Google +, or get more info I'll pass it on, it wasn't as simple as updating from the terminal I don't think
I'll post some more feedback tomorrow as it's getting a bit late in the UK now(23:00) for an old geezer.
Nearly
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Richard
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #22 on Aug 21, 2012, 4:55pm » | |
Thanks Brian,
I'm downloading the mp4.
I'll see if I can understand and see what you're doing.
If not I'll ask for help.
Sounds as if it really helps setting up after installing to another computer.
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SalineOS-1.7, Xfce4.6.2, w/3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae;
SalineOS-2.0, Xfce4.8, w/3.2.0-4-686-pae
LinuxMint-14, Xfce4.10, w/3.5.0-17-generic |
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ukbrian
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #23 on Aug 21, 2012, 5:32pm » | |
Quote:| Sounds as if it really helps setting up after installing to another computer. |
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Remastersys makes it worthwhile to spend time customizing you desktop but the menus make it so simple/quick to set up a new install or a different Xfce OS your trying out.
I haven't followed the conventional rout of putting the .desktop files in $HOME/.local/share/applications as I found I was getting double entries in my standard menu or if I removed the contents of Categories= then everything appeared under Other in the main menu and I prefer to leave the main menu untouched, just seems right to me.
The problem I found with all the Linux DE's was they all have only one menu and it's so cluttered and consequently difficult for novice users.
They all seem to want to follow windows and create multi column menus which are horrendous for new users, The look on their faces in skype if I ask them to go to the menu and it opens, they panic big time hence my interest in menus through a novices eyes.
The classic menu in windows 2000 was the best MS done, one column to slowly read down with tool tips.
I think Anthony might find a use for these menus and if he does he'll do things far more elegantly than me.
After a lot of trial and error I settled on the folder name being ukbrian because when I open thunar the folder it's at the bottom of the list out of the way, I named the symbolic link to my data partition as 500-data because with the first character being numeric it appears at the top with thunar.
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Anthony Nordquist
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #24 on Aug 21, 2012, 9:34pm » | |
Setting up a menu for each and every category wouldn't be that hard. It would just require making a bunch of .menu (XML) files. Though, I tried for having less buttons and clutter on the main interface. Most daily use applications can be launched without the need to ever open the menu. At this point it is just a stash of programs that at some point you might want/need to run. I think it works as it is, but people are more than welcome to try and change my mind.
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wh7qq
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #25 on Aug 21, 2012, 10:05pm » | |
Looks like the promised auto-update fix is working...after the suggested dist-upgrade, it works from the lower panel just as it should. Right now it is grinding through the endless list of Translation-xx items in the list. I even ran dpkg-reconfigure locales but they seem to be there to stay. Ah, finished. It works just as before. On to further exploration! Thanks Anthony.
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Anthony Nordquist
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #26 on Aug 21, 2012, 10:33pm » | |
Aug 21, 2012, 10:05pm, wh7qq wrote:| Looks like the promised auto-update fix is working...after the suggested dist-upgrade, it works from the lower panel just as it should. Right now it is grinding through the endless list of Translation-xx items in the list. I even ran dpkg-reconfigure locales but they seem to be there to stay. Ah, finished. It works just as before. On to further exploration! Thanks Anthony. |
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I am going to be writing a graphical update tool for Dev2. I was planning to use the packagekit utility, but on further investigation, I think a simple custom job in bash and yad will do the trick far better.
This will allow me to add useful features such as logging and the like.
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ukbrian
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #27 on Aug 21, 2012, 11:07pm » | |
I did another install and took some snapshots for a change.
I thought it best to start with the auto install that novices will use.
I like the default theme it would be difficult to find a better one, black and white give the greatest contrast for folk with eye sight problems.
OpenSUSE and some others use a full screen installer which I think is the way to go.
This will allow you to have excellent context sensitive help in front of the user where and when it's needed, almost an on screen manual without the screen becoming to cluttered.
I think the focus should be locked into the installer so the user can't do anything on the main desktop or menu.
Screen 0:
I think the language should already have been set
No abort option
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-000.png "[image]")
I would favour setting the language for the user before booting into the system so gparted comes up in their native tongue, a very limited example this but it could be expanded.
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/manjaro-01.png "[image]")
Screen2:
Is it not possible that you can tell I'm in the UK so it auto highlights English-England?
if you still use this screen.Make things as easy as possible for a user, minimum decisions or selections
no exit option
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-001.png "[image]")
Screen 3:
If I select "Keyboard layout is wrong" and change the keyboard I am not returned to this screen to test the keyboard in, but perhaps it has been set earlier?
no exit button
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-002.png "[image]")
Screen 4:
I have different needs to most folk but I think my needs are still relevant, I very often want to go back and do something again but there was no abort/exit control on this screen, try closing the window at top right and the window closes and then reloads.
Does Yad allow you to remove the windows controls from the top right corner? or stop them being used.
Suggested labels for the buttons which can be larger.
"Advanced Installer"
" Using Gparted"
and
" Automatic Install"
"to Selected Hard Drive"
and
" Abort or Exit "
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-01.png "[image]")
Screen 5
This trip we are going to auto install so this is the next screen.
If there's only one drive as in virtualbox this screen is unnecessary but if you use it then the first drive should be selected/highlighted to save he user clicking on it, when you have a million users that's a lot of wasted clicks and it's annoying when you click on OK and the screen redraws, confusing for a novice.
Thank you, the first exit button.
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-02.png "[image]")
Screen 6:
I really like this screen and I would suggest using a variation of it to select the size of the partition to create on the selected drive
Thinking of a column showing the size in GB another showing the size in MB and a column showing the estimated free space after the install.
Then rows offering various sizes to create the partition with.
I just find it crazy to install SalineOS on a 250 GB drive and very soon 500 GB will be the smallest drive you can get, I would have the default set at 30 GB maximum
no exit
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-03.png "[image]")
Screen 7:
I love swap files and think they should be used instead of swap partitions, you are the only dev I know of using this method, many congratulations for thinking outside the box.
I would have the recommended setting selected/highlighted.
no exit
Screen 8:
I like the default for the check box
Do you really gain anything by not making the passwords display text on this screen?
I think it's pointless and confusing for a novice.
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-04.png "[image]")
Screen 9:
I think you should have a default here with a message "If you are unsure just press OK"
I would use the same default for the partition label.
Novices would be very confused by what it does and why make them type unnecessarily.
With a larger screen you could display the help text where it's needed.
I did press it once to see what it done but when I returned to this screen what I had typed was gone so I had all that work to do again.
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-05.png "[image]")
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-06.png "[image]")
Screen 10:
This screen should find it's default zone as other distros do.
Make it easy for users.
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-08.png "[image]")
Screen 11:
Trickier one this one thinking of a novice with windows install on the drive the bios boots from, how do you avoid the novice going into the bios to change the boot drive, if windows is present do you write the MBR to the windows drive?
A novice wouldn't want the second option surely? this is a novice install I'm doing.
Definitely need some simply worded text help for this one.
If just a single drive(Virtualbox) then the drive should be selected/highlighted.
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-09.png "[image]")
Screen 12:
Perfect
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-10.png "[image]")
Screen 13:
Perhaps the button labels "Change Selected Option" and "Install SalineOS 2"
I haven't used it but I'm guessing if I selected to change the swap-file then I would cycle through the options underneath until I got back here which sounds OK to me.
![[image]](http://lin.me.uk/saline/2-pics/salineos-11.png "[image]")
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Anthony Nordquist
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #28 on Aug 22, 2012, 12:11am » | |
Aug 21, 2012, 11:07pm, ukbrian wrote:
Perhaps the button labels "Change Selected Option" and "Install SalineOS 2"
I haven't used it but I'm guessing if I selected to change the swap-file then I would cycle through the options underneath until I got back here which sounds OK to me.
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Your images aren't loading on my Archos handheld, but I can say this for sure. You need to try the Change Selected button, it is far more useful than you are giving it credit for at the moment.
As for pre-highlighting options, I don't want the user to accidently click through. This way if they do click without thinking, then the installer will reload the function (Show them the dialog again).
On most screens there is plenty of room to have the User Manual open next to the dialogs. This will have step by step instructions and more information. Just as soon as I write the 2.0 manual.
The close button on the top causes yad to exit with the return value 252. I account for this on every single dialog, perhaps I should change some of them to a dialog asking if they are sure they want to quit instead of reloading the function. I thought I did this for all functions that did not have a gtk-quit button on them, but if not I can always go through and do so. I can not show these buttons at all, but I don't think this is the way to go.
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ukbrian
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| | Re: SalineOS 2 Dev
« Reply #29 on Aug 22, 2012, 1:15am » | |
I guess it must look like I don't like your installer when I think it is one of the better ones, everything about SalineOS I like your choice of DE, your choice of apps mostly but you'll never satisfy everyone on that front, most of all your focus on stability/reliability, I've been running the same install for nearly 18 months without it missing a heart beat and I've made numerous remastersys's to other machines.
The top line panel you use, even now there are loads of apps in windows 7 that don't look/check if the taskbar is at the top so the windows title bar with the max/min/close controls are hidden.
I've always liked the panel/taskbar at the top, I can remember when one of the word processors first came out with a top line drop down menu in DOS in the early 90's, within 18 months all the main DOS apps had upgraded with top line drop down menus because the business users demanded them.
The comments I made about the different screens etc. are just my thoughts on things but it's your baby, if I can help you I will.
Am I right in thinking you can pass parameters on the command line to create a partition of any size?
Quote:| but I can say this for sure. You need to try the Change Selected button, it is far more useful than you are giving it credit for at the moment. |
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I will with the next advanced install I do in a few days time, going back can be complicated when a later screen depends on the values set with an earlier one. I was trying to think of the safest way to do it.
I've been up all night so I'm getting a bit yawny now, sorry if I went over the top a bit.
There's one machine out in Turkey that I put SalineOS 1.5 on and that's still running without any problems, it was a dual boot with windows 7 and windows packed up ages ago.
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